Kathleen Kennedy Townsend Calls on Progressive Catholics to Resist Pressure from the Bishops on Abortion

Peggy Simpson reported this for the Women’ Media Center; it’s reprinted here with permission.
At a critical moment for health care reform, Townsend says it is essential for religious progressives to speak up.

Kathleen Kennedy Townsend broadened the Kennedy family’s dispute with the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops Tuesday night.

She elaborated on an op-ed she wrote for Politico.com criticizing the Conference of Catholic Bishops’ opposition to health care reform unless an unprecedented expansion of restrictions against abortion is included. “I don’t think the bishops should be allowed to do that,” she said Tuesday night. “I think we should be speaking out (against them).”

Townsend, former lieutenant governor of Maryland, also said it was crucial for progressives from within religious groups who had fought for women’s rights and gay rights to be “more articulate” about their faith.

“We progressive religious people have our backs against the wall. We allowed it to happen,” she said.

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Citing Pew Center polls that show Republicans are more likely to say they are religious than Democrats, Townsend said not allowing one party to claim religion “means speaking about it and talking about it.” Already, she said, evangelicals are changing course, supporting progressive civil rights causes, “while our bishops are stuck.”

She questioned whether “you can build on something that is fundamentally corrupt…. that is collapsing.” If that current structure does collapse, she said, “there will be other Catholic bishops, women and men, who will speak out and take their place.”
Asked afterward about the Conference of Catholic Bishops’ assumption that they held the dominant power in the showdown over abortion and health care, she said “but they don’t. And they’ll find that out.”

Townsend spoke at the home of a longtime Democratic Party activist, Elizabeth Bagley, who is special representative for the Global Partnership Initiative in the State Department. The event was a fundraiser for Interfaith Voices, a nonprofit, multifaith religion news magazine on public radio, started by Maureen Fiedler soon after the 9/11 terrorist attacks.

Fiedler, a member of the Sister of Loretto order, is a longtime feminist activist within the Roman Catholic Church. Her radio show now is carried by more than 60 stations and recently won national awards for its work.

The crowd of more than 100 at the event included many nuns and Catholic reformers, as well as leading women in other denominations.

Townsend, the oldest child of the late Robert Kennedy, did not refer to the inflammatory public exchange between her cousin, Representative Patrick Kennedy (D-RI) and Rhode Island Bishop Thomas Tobin last month, after Kennedy defied the Conference of Catholic Bishops and voted against the Stupak amendment in the House health care reform bill. The Stupak amendment would effectively bar health care coverage on abortion for the tens of millions of people expected to participate in the government-sponsored insurance exchanges, even if individuals paid for that coverage with their own money.

The bishops, in a political bombshell on the eve of House passage of the reform bill, threatened to defeat the overall health care bill unless the amendment was adopted to replace what had been seen as compromise language on abortion coverage. When Speaker Nancy Pelosi was forced to put it up for a vote, it passed, with the support of 64 Democrats.

Congressman Kennedy, son of the late Senator Ted Kennedy, was one of 50 House Catholics, including Pelosi and Ways and Means Chairman Charles Rangel, who opposed the Stupak amendment. Patrick Kennedy criticized church leaders for threatening to take down the health care reform bill, which would extend coverage to an estimated 40 million Americans, unless their version on abortion was included.

Bishop Tobin accused Kennedy of making an unprovoked attack on the church, called for him to apologize and said his position was “unacceptable to the church and scandalous to many of our members.” Kennedy then revealed that Tobin had called for denying communion to him because of his abortion position.

That fueled a firestorm that has brought in many prominent Catholic politicians. Former New York Governor Mario Cuomo said the church was taking a dangerous position: “if you’re required (by the church) to make everybody follow your Catholic role, then nobody would vote for Catholics because it’s clear that when you get the authority, you’re going to be guided by your faith.”

Joseph Califano, former Health and Human Services secretary, said the bishops in recent years have stepped up criticism of Catholic politicians who support federal funding for abortion. That may be understandable “but the denial of the Eucharist seems to me to be a sort of a nuclear option.”

Another pro-choice Catholic Democrat, Representative Patrick Murphy of Philadelphia, said, “We don’t legislate at the orders of the Vatican, we legislate what is in our conscience and what we think is good for our country.” Murphy spoke at Harvard University while accepting the John F. Kennedy New Frontier Award from Caroline Kennedy, daughter of the nation’s only Catholic president. Caroline Kennedy, a highly visible Obama backer during the Democratic primary, had been talked up as a potential ambassador to the Vatican. U.S. Catholic groups publically opposed her because of her pro-choice views, and Vatican sources told an Italian newspaper that she was disqualified because of her stand on abortion.

Kathleen Townsend’s speech comes as the debate on health care reform and abortion enters another crucial stage.

In her Politico article, Kathleen Townsend called for defeat in the Senate of a Stupak-type amendment backed by the bishops and sponsored by Senator Ben Nelson (D-NE). That amendment was defeated by a majority vote but Nelson is threatening to scuttle the overall bill unless something resembling Stupak is added to it.

If the Senate does pass a health care bill, the next step will be a House-Senate conference to reconcile different language. The Stupak language will be a key element of that discussion, with the Conference of Bishops likely to weigh in strongly again.

Such politicking on abortion shows that the Conference of Bishops “has lost its way,” said Townsend in her Politico article. “Why is it that the bishops are more concerned with restricting millions of American women from making health care decisions that are best for them and their families than they are with ensuring that millions of Americans—women, men, children, immigrants, the poor, the middle class—get much-needed health insurance?”

As Catholics, she said, “are we so laser focused on the issue of abortion that we are willing to join tea partiers and the like to bring down the health care reform bill? And at the enormous expense of millions of Americans who suffer every day because they can’t afford to get checkups, because they must choose bankruptcy in order to save the life of their loved one?

“Not this Catholic.

“As someone who was raised by a family absolutely committed to public service and to making sure that our nation provides health care to the least among us, I am devastated that the bishops are using their influence to try not to increase access to health care for the millions of people who don’t have insurance. Where is their passion for the families who need health care?”

29 Comments

  1. Bruce on December 17, 2009 at 2:49 pm

    Ms. Townsend and any pro-abortion politician or citizen is NOT a Catholic. Lets get that straight, and it deserves to be repeated: You can’t be Catholic and pro-abortion. By doing so, you excommunicate yourself. Oh, you can claim to be whatever you want, but in the eyes of God and the Church, you are no longer Catholic. The rhetoric Ms. Townsend spouts is empty and filled with lies and hatred. Her, and her friends, are nearing the end of the road of their ability to impact society and the Church. A new class of Orthodox priests and bishops are filling the ranks of the retiring old class that let the likes of Townsend and others dissent for so long. Those days, and their nuns, are over. Good bye, and good riddance EX-Catholics.

  2. Loveyouall on December 17, 2009 at 2:50 pm

    Ms. Townsend just doesn’t get it. Abortion is a non-negotiable issue for Catholics. Lives are at stake, human lives. Either I believe in the ultimate value of human life, or I don’t. And what I believe influences how I act. The consequences are far-reaching; they extend way beyond any single pro- or anti-life act into every facet of my being. Indeed, some things are relative — but not “every” thing. There is a right, and there is a wrong. The destruction of innocent human life is wrong — period. No compromise is possible, as any Catholic can tell you.

  3. Gloria Feldt on December 17, 2009 at 2:50 pm

    Oh, and so you think a woman has no right to her own life? To be valued and respected as a moral decision maker?

    And you have no respect for the major religions in our pluralistic society that see the complex moral issues surrounding human reproduction, sex, and women’s place in the world quite differently than Catholics do?

    Darn right, the consequences are far reaching. The consequences of forced pregnancy and motherhood have been at the root of oppressing women for millennia, and have cost many millions of women’s lives in the process.

  4. Bruce on December 17, 2009 at 2:51 pm

    Gloria, you are sadly mistaken. Pregnancy brings women into the world, while abortion murders women (and men too). So the cost of lives from abortion is 50 million in the US and counting. I believe you have your terms mixed up.

    Here it is again in slow motion:

    pregnancy = women added to the world

    abortion = women murdered

    Add to that the fact that abortion maims would-be mothers, often killing them in the process as well, at a far greater rate than birthing ever has and ever will. It is so sad that you continue to spread the lie that abortion is somehow health care, and that it means freedom for women. Abortion frees men to use women, it kills women (and men) in the womb, and it destroys the lives of these women who seek abortions along with draining their pocketbooks for the procedure, deadly contraceptive pills, and a lifetime of anxiety medications to deal with the psychological damage from abortion.

    I’m sorry, but you lose here. Abortion kills people, and planned parenthood makes billions of dollars off of suckering women into believing their lies. They are the ultimate in evil corporations, and it is wonderful that the MAJORITY of women and men in the US and in the World are now PRO LIFE!

    Abortion is coming to an end, and its about time. I praise God Almighty for the snuffing out of this evil and terrible practice, and its remains piled upon the ashbin of history. Abortion will go down in history like the Holocaust, as a terrible event of our PAST!

    Glory to God in the Highest and peace to His Church on earth…the True and Holy Catholic Church…not the one of Ms. Townsend, which doesn’t exist.

  5. Will on December 17, 2009 at 2:51 pm

    Abortion is murder. It is not health care. It damages women and kills more girls than anything else on the planet.

    The most wonderful thing a woman can be is a mother. It is the pinnacle of existence, worthy of praise and protection. Abortion is an evil and horrible act of murder, which destroys women. Period. Those who lie and tell you otherwise are either misinformed, seeking money, or both.

    Also, contraception causes cancer and severely damages women’s reproductive systems. It also encourages promiscuity, destroys marriages, and ruins lives. Stop believing the lies of planned parenthood and Ms. Townshend. They have their financial interests at stake, while you have your LIFE at stake.

    Pro-Life is the only way. All other ways are an abomination.

  6. Gloria Feldt on December 17, 2009 at 2:52 pm

    OK, so you guys talk amongst yourselves. I think you are 100% wrong though I respect your right to be so and I expect you to respect my right to hold opposing views.

    Just remember, if anybody gets mean, disrespectful, or threatening, I’ll remove your post. I am also not fond of outright lies and distortions of the facts, which several of you are doing. But I know you aren’t open to the facts so I’ll just register that I have your number and say thanks for commenting.

  7. Mother of 7 on December 17, 2009 at 2:52 pm

    Life is difficult but not impossible! Women want their freedom but there’s a difference between “freedom” and “license”. Since the existance of WOMEN, nothing has changed anatomically. Women get pregnant the same way from the beginning of time to NOW! The only difference is that we have groups that use Christian rhetoric to insidiously impose anti-Christian belief that same way they claim that the Catholic Church and other Evangelical denominations do. Note to “reformed” Catholics, YOU CAN’T BE CATHOLIC AND PRO-CHOICE! Pray for God’s will!

    • Bruce on December 17, 2009 at 2:53 pm

      Mother of 7:

      First of all, congratulations and thank you for being a wonderful mother!! You are an inspiration and a model for all mothers. Thank you and may God Bless you!

      As for what Ms. Feltd stated, exactly how is abortion not the killing of a human being (and most often, a female human being)? Funny thing about your rhetoric is that none of it is true, and fails to cover the story, which is the ending of a completely innocent human being’s life. You, Ms. Feltd, started as an embryo. You, Ms. Feldt, started as a child in your mother’s womb. You, Ms. Feldt, were born into the world to give glory and love to your parents and to God. I am not sure why you would want to rob another human being of the very same life you were given. What gives you, or anyone else, that power?

      Face the facts: A child in the womb is a child and NOT part of the woman’s body. A child needs a mother to survive both inside AND outside the womb for a number of years, so the dependency-upon-mom-for-life argument is false as well.

      You have no right to murder a completely innocent child. None. And those who think they do, such as Ms. Townsend, will find out the damage they have caused when they face God in judgment. 50 million children murdered and counting. 50 million mothers of dead children. 50 million lives that could have saved the world…many of which were girls..future mothers, doctors, teachers, lawyers, business owners, scientists, sportsmen, etc.

      How many more have to die before you are satisfied?

    • Bruce on December 17, 2009 at 2:54 pm

      And to be perfectly truthful, no one has control of how they get here. Why should a baby suffer death because of a rape? Why should a woman be forced through a horrible procedure in which her son or daughter is cut to pieces and sucked out of her uterus? Why should she not only have to live through a rape, but also live through the death of her child.

      No. She needs love and support, and to bring that child into the world so that she or he may have a chance to live, and have a loving mother and a life here. She should have the chance to love someone so much that she would die for him or her. To kill her child is to damage her even further, and for life.

      Post-abortive syndrome kills women. The procedure maims their organs, and renders them sick for life in many ways. Worst of all, she has to live with the fact that she had her child killed. And that never goes away.

      There is only one path to forgiveness, and that is repentance and mercy from God. You won’t find that at planned parenthood, who is only interested in killing children to stuff their wallets (billions of dollars in profits). No, it is found int the Church that Ms. Townsend hates so very much.

      Why do you love abortion so much? Can you tell us? Why do you love the murder of children, the maiming of mothers, promiscuity, disease, depression, and death? How is that health care? How is that even humane.

      Seek help and repentance.

    • Bruce on December 17, 2009 at 2:54 pm

      Lastly, support Crisis Pregnancy Centers. They offer women REAL care and hope, and if she does not want to raise that child, they offer ADOPTION. And unlike planned parenthood, they do it for FREE!

      If you don’t want those babies, give them to us. We’ll love them and care for them. We won’t wait for you to change your mind while kids keep dying.

  8. Will on December 17, 2009 at 2:55 pm

    BTW: This is what you love so much:
    http://www.youtube.com/frfrankpavone#p/c/1D719AEF8790CA52/0/us_y9GP_-DA

    Is this what you call health care? Sounds like a trial of a serial killer.

  9. tim on December 17, 2009 at 2:55 pm

    Satan is the Prince of Lies and he’s spun a big one when it comes to defense of abortion. Abortion is the most insidious evil in the world today because honest men and women have been seduced into believing that it can be viewed as some benign expression of womens rights.

    What is very telling about the prochoice movement is that it offers no support or recognition of the fact that many if not most women who have an abortion suffer from and regret the decision for the rest of their lives. They suffer in silence, fully aware they have caused damage to their immortal soul. I kow two women personally who have opened up to me on this subject without any prompting.
    Abortion truly is evil. The Bishops defend the faith as they must.

  10. Aletha on December 18, 2009 at 2:56 pm

    Wow. Such vitriol directed at women who dare choose when and if they wish to reproduce. Need I remind these aggrieved Catholics their religion is one of the most sexist in history, and it appears little has changed in that regard. So is this the sort of nonsense with which women are expected to compromise, so the Democrats can claim they reformed health insurance? Even if abortion is not to be further restricted, that claim would be dubious, but if Democrats like Nelson, Casey, and Stupak get their way, and Obama signs the result, it should be clear to everyone how willing Democrats are to throw women under the bus.

    • Gloria Feldt on December 18, 2009 at 2:56 pm

      Aletha, you shine the light precisely on the crux of the matter:

      “Such vitriol directed at women who dare choose when and if they wish to reproduce.”

      • Bruce on December 18, 2009 at 2:57 pm

        Aletha and Ms. Feldt:

        Your ignorance of the Catholic Church is astounding. A faith that holds Mary, the Mother of God above every other human being in history, as the co-redeemer of the world, and the only one who has the ear of God Himself is sexist, eh? A faith that considers the ordination of women to be a step DOWN from their prominence as mothers and as givers of life is sexist, eh? A Church that is referred to in the feminine as “Mother Church” or “Bride of Christ” or our Holy Mother is sexist, eh?

        Get your head out of the sand. The only thing sexist here is the lies fed to you daily by planned parenthood, that suggests you should be promiscuous and have them kill as many of your children as possible. The use and abuse of women sexually is planned parenthood’s business. Don’t believe me? Search their profits. They make billions off of making sure you are miserable. They WANT you to sleep around and be used by men. THAT is sexist. They want you to kill your children, especially girls and especially if you a minority. THAT is sexist AND racist. Men love planned parenthood because it allows them to sleep with women without strings attached, to abuse them and to walk away without regard for them. THAT is sexist.

        The Church upholds that women are to be treated with more respect than any man. Women are called to be wives, and husbands are called to DIE FOR THEM. That is our calling. We live to serve our wives and our Holy Mother the Church, and are willing to die for them.

        Get your facts straight: http://www.rev-know-it-all.com/

  11. Loveyouall on December 18, 2009 at 2:57 pm

    Quite simply, a woman’s legitimate right to choose ends at the point another human life begins. It’s a scientific fact that human life begins at conception. No one has the right to end an innocent person’s life. Abortion is not health care; it’s homicide.

    BTW I don’t see any vitriol, just people telling the truth.

  12. Pablo Sanchez on December 18, 2009 at 2:58 pm

    Ladies & Gentlemen: there appears to be a lot of passion focused on this discussion, and understandably so. And rather than argue ad hominem about this, I would like to look at this from the perspective of the unborn child. As mentioned earlier, we all started life in the womb. From the moment we were conceived, we were destined to become one and only one thing: a human being. And as human beings, whether as unseen unborns in the womb or as adults in the world, we are endowed with certain unalienable rights, the primary being the right to life, according to our founders (and our Author). But the unborn children are unable to voice their conerns, or protest, or take their grievances into a court of law. They are without a voice of their own, defensless, and completely innocent. Who will speak for them? And I would ask those who would deprive these citizens of their lives, by what right do you do that, given that the right to life is unalienable, whereas a law like Roe v. Wade is mutable, inconstant, a law made by humans. When human lives become little more than chattel, then no one is safe from exploitation. Did we learn anything from the tragic experience of slavery in this country. Abortion is very similar in that a whole class of persons is relegated to an inferior status so that they can be exploited and eradicated. This is an injustice beyond measure, given the numbers of children murdered annually. I’ve seen terms like “sexist” bandied about in these comments. What do you call those who murder others because they consider themeselves more important, more worthy of life?

  13. tim on December 18, 2009 at 2:59 pm

    The post two above by loveyouall is really all that needs to be said. Even a pro-choicer can see that, even if they don’t want to admit this simple truth, that a woman’s right to choose does end at the point that another human life begins.
    “Such vitriol directed at women who dare choose when and if they wish to reproduce.” This comment makes no sense as reproduction has already taken place. Its already happenened. If one values human life, and that really is the crux of the matter, then the choice is whether to keep the baby or give it to someone else to raise. The human life already exists. Its beguns its life journey. Its no different than we were at the same stage of life.
    I would suggest that if pro-choicers want to be taken seriously, that they heed the words of Naiomi Klein. She is an intelligent woman. You won’t catch her uttering platitudes like the one above, that insult the intellect.
    Klein has said, and I paraprhase, that pro-choice must acknowledge that abortion does invovle the killing of a human life. She says medical science has proven this. She says pro-choice must develop a “new moral framework”, to address this reality. This is fair comment from Klein. She is essentially advocating that pro-choice adopt the same mentality that capital punishment advocates promote– that a designated class of human life does not have a right to live. Slave traders also developed a moral framework,to justify the legal killing of human slaves. For capital punishment advocates its a criminal class of humanity that have been found guilty of certain grevious crimes. For pro-choice advocates, it’s the unborn child, that is dependant on its mother’s womb environment to live, that has no fundamental right to live.
    At least this an honest argument and dispenses with all the tiresome outdated 70’s “right to choose” nonsense. At least Klein has advanced the debate into the current millenia. She is willing to address contemporary scientific reality.
    Ultimately what I think will destroy abortion as an option for most women is further advances in pre-natal science. The more we learn as a society about the humanity of the fetus, the more repugnant the abortion option will become.
    Witness the Ellen Page character in the Oscar nominated film Juno. She visits the abortion clinic but is put off the procedure when she realizes the baby has fingers. It’s humanity became only too apparent.
    Juno is not an anti pro-choice film but its lead character does take an anti abortion stance.

  14. tim on December 18, 2009 at 2:59 pm

    Gloria said:
    “Just remember, if anybody gets mean, disrespectful, or threatening, I’ll remove your post. I am also not fond of outright lies and distortions of the facts, which several of you are doing. But I know you aren’t open to the facts so I’ll just register that I have your number and say thanks for commenting.”
    Whose not open to fact? Where are the lies? ie deliberate mis-representation of truth? Was someone misquoted?
    What facts have been distorted. I see opinions but not “distortions” of fact. That’s a weak response to claim lies and distorted facts and then fail to point them out.

  15. Aletha on December 19, 2009 at 3:00 pm

    Spare me these condescending exhortations on the meaning of sexism, as seen by clueless men. Putting women on a pedestal is chivalry, not respect. I suppose that respect was demonstrated by the Inquisition? The argument that motherhood is the highest position for a woman, so anything else would be a step down, has consistently been used to keep women confined to the role defined by men, to the great detriment of women and, by extension, humanity as a whole. To see God as male is sexist in and of itself.

    I think the point Naomi Klein was trying to make is that, it cannot be denied that in a sense, a fetus is alive, and it is human. Abortion is not a trivial matter like swatting an annoying fly, though I have never known feminists to treat it as a trivial or inconsequential matter. However, what distinguishes a fetus from an egg? Are a woman’s eggs dead, or not human? Hardly. The primary distinction is that due to fertilization by the male zygote, the egg has started to grow, so barring complications, it will realize its potential to develop and go through the life cycle. Nobody would argue that all eggs should have the right to life, though the Catholic opposition to contraception comes close to that absurdity. If I wanted to be absurd, I could argue reproduction happens when eggs are formed. The word has more than one meaning. Cell division is another form of reproduction. Cancer is another. Should cancer have the right to life? Women are not broodmares whose primary value is the capacity to produce offspring. That men may see women that way, yet deny that is sexist, is classic.

    By the way, if anyone can come up with some basis for claiming the right to life specified in the Declaration of Independence was meant to apply to a fetus, I would like to see it. My impression was the Founding Fathers, despite their sexism, were rather leery of religious intolerance and dogma, which they did not conflate with facts. I doubt this extension of the right to life to a fetus ever crossed their minds. What, should a woman who miscarries be considered a murderer? Suppose she did something careless to cause the miscarriage? Where does this stop?

    • Bruce on December 19, 2009 at 3:01 pm

      Poor Aletha, she thinks that babies are cancers and not human. Perhaps she is blessed to know that her mother was not insane and KNEW Aletha was a BABY and not a parasite, lizard, or cancer inside her.

      Aletha, we are humans from the moment we are conceived, and that includes you. Your pro-life mother and father, along with God Almighty, let you come into this world. How sad for them, and for God, that you want to kill babies. The fact that you rejoice each and every time a baby is torn limb from limb inside women like you, their skulls crushed with a forceps.

      That baby being dismembered is YOU in there. That baby’s skull being crushed is YOU, your daughter, your sister, you mother, your son, your brother, your husband, your father, and even Ms. Townshend.

      Learn your basic elementary biology: You were a zygote, were an embryo, were a fetus, were a baby, and were a little girl. During all those times you were a human being, with a RIGHT to LIFE. You should fall on your knees each and everyday and thank God for the fact that your parents worked with God to bring you into this world. You should also ask God for mercy for your horrible views that is okay to murder people.

      May God have mercy on your soul.

  16. Mike on December 19, 2009 at 3:00 pm

    Remember, Christ, our Saviour
    Was born on Christmas day
    To save us all from Satan’s power
    When we were gone astray…

  17. amused on December 19, 2009 at 3:01 pm

    It is great, and hilarious, how outnumbered the pro-abortion/pro-murder crowd is here, on their own blog!

    The days of radical feminism/lesbianism, and pro-abortion groups are coming to a hard and fast end. Its about time!

    Praise be to God!

  18. Gloria Feldt on December 19, 2009 at 3:01 pm

    The lack of response is not an opinion poll. It’s just a reflection that we realize there’s no productive discussion with people holding such extreme anti-choice and, as Aletha has pointed out, misogynist and disrespectful views toward women.

  19. Bruce on December 20, 2009 at 3:02 pm

    Again, Ms. Feldt, you must not be paying attention because you could not possibly be more off-base in your comments. Instead of realizing that your pro-abortion views are destructive and destroy women’s lives, you seem to think that murdering your fellow women and maiming mothers is their ticket to freedom.

    Thank God for women that your views, and your generation, are coming to an end.

    Seek help.

  20. mike on December 20, 2009 at 3:02 pm

    Sadly…I never ever imagined that our Christ has “disrespectful views toward women” …. His will be done!!!!

  21. closed era adoptee on December 21, 2009 at 3:03 pm

    Post by Bruce:
    “Lastly, support Crisis Pregnancy Centers. They offer women REAL care and hope, and if she does not want to raise that child, they offer ADOPTION. And unlike planned parenthood, they do it for FREE!

    If you don’t want those babies, give them to us. We’ll love them and care for them. We won’t wait for you to change your mind while kids keep dying.”

    ~~~~~

    Trust me, adoption is not always in the best interest of the child. Finding children for parents is not what adoption is meant to be.

    Crisis pregnancy centers are created, supported and run to supply the adoption agencies with product…

    I am pretty sure you also support Closed Records for Adoptees – just like the Catholic Church…which lobbies against any attempt to change the laws to allow adoptees to know where they came from, who they were, what genetic diseases may be in their future – before some judge with the stroke of his/her pen permanently wiped away the babies past. And before you come back with the so called “promise of privacy” – it is not in any contract signed which is what adoption is – a contract. A promise of privacy is only legally binding if it is within the 4 corners of a contract.

    Get real – if you wish to adopt a child – adopt from foster care – make a difference in the life of a child that needs a home.

  22. Aletha on December 22, 2009 at 3:03 pm

    you could not possibly be more off-base in your comments

    Bruce said this to Gloria. Really, Bruce? Are you sure you were not describing your own comments? However, I could imagine ways you could be more off-base, but it would not be easy to top your ignorant nonsense. I suspect Bruce is a troll, anyway, certainly unrepresentative of the majority of Catholics. He seems to think the way to win an argument is to ignore or distort every point that counters his arguments, as if by increasing the volume and outrageousness of his screeches he can drown out all opposition. That is more like a troll than someone trying to make a serious argument. I wonder, is it Catholic dogma that the lucky zygotes that combine to form a fertilized egg have the right to life, but all the other zygotes do not, because it is the will of God that those particular lucky zygotes should live, and all the rest must die?

    I would not suspect Senator Nelson to be as foolish as the abortion-is-murder screamers here, but still, it irks me no end that the Democratic leadership considers it worthwhile and necessary to compromise away women’s rights to placate him in order to end a filibuster.

  23. tim on July 2, 2010 at 3:04 pm

    @Aletha. Here is the definition of zygote according to wikipedia ( as good a source as any)
    “A zygote (from Greek ζυγωτός zygōtos “joined” or “yoked”, from ζυγοῦν zygoun “to join” or “to yoke”),[1] or zygocyte, is the initial cell formed when a new organism is produced by means of sexual reproduction. A zygote is synthesized from the union of two gametes, and constitutes the first stage in a unique organism’s development. Zygotes are usually produced by a fertilization event between two haploid cells — an ovum from a female and a sperm cell from a male — which combine to form the single diploid cell. Such zygotes contain DNA derived from both the mother and the father, and this provides all the genetic information necessary to form a new individual. The term zygote is also used more loosely to refer to the group of cells formed by the first few cell divisions, although this is properly referred to as a morula.”

    If you read the defintion, I think its pretty clear that a zygote is formed by a fertization event between a female ovum and a male sperm cell. You seem to be under the impression that zygotes combine to form fertilized eggs, when in fact the zygote by definition is a fertilized egg. Women menstruate one ovum at a time. The sperm all go after the same egg and only one can penetrate, so there is no dilemma over which zygotes live or die because a pregnant woman is only carrying one zygote or maybe two in the case of twins, which happens when two ova get loose in the fallopian tubes in the case of fraternal twins or when one fertilized egg splits into two and you have identical twins, resulting from a single fertilization.
    My point is that there are not a whole bunch of zygotes floating around. One zygote is normal. Two maybe three in the case of twins or triplets. Each zygote is a unique human life, so yes the church supports the right to life of all zygotes.
    Naiomi Kllein understand this basic science. She doesn’t argue what constitutes a human life. Science has told us. There is no discussion there. A Zygote is a human life. End of story. So she has at least advanced the discussion to be about the morality of killing unborn human life, as opposed to how is a human life defined.
    And @ Gloria how does arguing in defence of unborn human life make one a mysongynist. Plenty of women make the same argument. Are they mysogynists too?

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